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	<title>Comments on: Census Watch</title>
	<atom:link href="http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://datalibre.ca</link>
	<description>urging governments to make data about canada and canadians free and accessible to citizens</description>
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		<title>By: IASSIST day one &#8211; an administrative census? &#171; CAPDU</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-2/#comment-86293</link>
		<dc:creator>IASSIST day one &#8211; an administrative census? &#171; CAPDU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 16:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-86293</guid>
		<description>[...] such groups have already spoken up. So my questions are: can we get them to do more? And can we get anyone to hear?    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] such groups have already spoken up. So my questions are: can we get them to do more? And can we get anyone to hear?    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Speaking notes: Long Form Census vital tool for good policy and good governance &#171; Wellesley Institute</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-25375</link>
		<dc:creator>Speaking notes: Long Form Census vital tool for good policy and good governance &#171; Wellesley Institute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 14:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-25375</guid>
		<description>[...] accurate data at the national level and for small-area needs. The Wellesley Institute, along with 377 national and regional groups, is opposed to the federal government&#8217;s plan to replace the Long Form with a voluntary [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] accurate data at the national level and for small-area needs. The Wellesley Institute, along with 377 national and regional groups, is opposed to the federal government&#8217;s plan to replace the Long Form with a voluntary [...]</p>
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		<title>By: datalibre.ca &#183; New Census Legal Challenge &#8211; Fighting for the Equal Right to be Counted&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-14613</link>
		<dc:creator>datalibre.ca &#183; New Census Legal Challenge &#8211; Fighting for the Equal Right to be Counted&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-14613</guid>
		<description>[...] Census Watch [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Census Watch [...]</p>
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		<title>By: datalibre.ca &#183; A response to Mr. Clement about his response to my letter on the Census</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-9769</link>
		<dc:creator>datalibre.ca &#183; A response to Mr. Clement about his response to my letter on the Census</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Sep 2010 16:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-9769</guid>
		<description>[...] Census Watch [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Census Watch [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MT @TraceyLauriault: #census W&#8230; &#124; Information Personnes / Persons Information</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-9366</link>
		<dc:creator>MT @TraceyLauriault: #census W&#8230; &#124; Information Personnes / Persons Information</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 23:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-9366</guid>
		<description>[...] @TraceyLauriault: #census Watch update http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/        &#192; vous / Your turn      Click here to cancel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] @TraceyLauriault: #census Watch update <a href="http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/" rel="nofollow">http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/</a>        &#192; vous / Your turn      Click here to cancel [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-7369</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-7369</guid>
		<description>Oops... Region of Waterloo is listed twice. 

275. Region of Waterloo
and 337. Waterloo, Region of</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230; Region of Waterloo is listed twice. </p>
<p>275. Region of Waterloo<br />
and 337. Waterloo, Region of</p>
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		<title>By: Tracey</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-7311</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 05:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-7311</guid>
		<description>Thanks Chantal. 

Citizens have to pay taxes, not idle in their cars in the summer heat, send their kids to school, present a health card when they go to the hospital, or need a license to do a whole host of things.  It is a fair trade in a democratic society, or else, we have no money to manage the nation, we get more carbon in the air that affects respiratory health, kids will not get the tools they and we need to be good and informed citizens, any one can just travel to Canada to use the health care system, or well, the roads would be crazy if we let unlicensed drivers on the road.  We live in a collective, and to better direct and strategically spend, we need good data, a mandatory census ensures good data.  Those on the list understand that citizenship in a democracy has tradeoffs, and the mandatory long form census is one of them.

Statistics Canada, when they do their follow-up on the census, are pretty great at informing people why they are asking those questions and how they use the data.  For the single parent, it means understanding time limitations, the need for childcare, perhaps income supplements, social and recreational programs at a fair price in her neighbourhood.  Information helps make decisions on a variety of things that improve our lives.  A few minutes of annoyance is worth the return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Chantal. </p>
<p>Citizens have to pay taxes, not idle in their cars in the summer heat, send their kids to school, present a health card when they go to the hospital, or need a license to do a whole host of things.  It is a fair trade in a democratic society, or else, we have no money to manage the nation, we get more carbon in the air that affects respiratory health, kids will not get the tools they and we need to be good and informed citizens, any one can just travel to Canada to use the health care system, or well, the roads would be crazy if we let unlicensed drivers on the road.  We live in a collective, and to better direct and strategically spend, we need good data, a mandatory census ensures good data.  Those on the list understand that citizenship in a democracy has tradeoffs, and the mandatory long form census is one of them.</p>
<p>Statistics Canada, when they do their follow-up on the census, are pretty great at informing people why they are asking those questions and how they use the data.  For the single parent, it means understanding time limitations, the need for childcare, perhaps income supplements, social and recreational programs at a fair price in her neighbourhood.  Information helps make decisions on a variety of things that improve our lives.  A few minutes of annoyance is worth the return.</p>
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		<title>By: Chantal James</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-6954</link>
		<dc:creator>Chantal James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-6954</guid>
		<description>In Canada there is a polarization on the subject of the mandatory census. People &quot;for &quot; the census speak of the need for the data and it&#039;s value in formulating smart government policy. People &quot;against&quot; the decision talk of their rights and coercion, and does a group have the right to demand an individual answer questions about their life against their will, under threat of fine and jail. 
So what&#039;s more important, the group/state/country/collective or the rights of the individual? Hasn&#039;t this question been played out countless times over the centuries around the world? How was this question settled? I guess it depends which country you live in. Some countries certainly protect the rights of the individual over the right of the group a lot better than others. 
If you study sociology or anthropology or philosophy, it is easy to identify these concepts in other populations/countries/ historical periods, but every population and individual is blind to these concepts in their own group. What do you do when the truth of your group conflicts with the truth of an individual?
&quot;StatsCan does great work for Canada.&quot;  (Truth for our group/Country/population.)
&quot;I&#039;ll ask the economists, politicians, and government agencies to keep their unwanted, uncomfortable questions off of me.&quot;  (Truth for the single mother who feels uncomfortable with the questions the census informs her she must answer, and refuses to answer)

Hence this debate, because the existence of people who don&#039;t answer the census questions, or answer them incorrectly, or write &quot;object to question&quot; for the reply poses an inconvenient truth for the group (&quot;us Canadians&quot;).
In fact, if you look at census data from all countries, including Canada, there are a significant number of respondents who mark some answers as &quot;object to question&quot;. Many others answer some questions in obviously incorrect ways which are understood but are not counted (eg. marking Jedi as their religion).  It&#039;s not easily known how many people purposely answer incorrectly and have these incorrect answers erroneously counted as accurate by Statistics Canada. Statistical agencies around the world don&#039;t like to talk about this problem, because it skews the data and puts the validity of all their work at risk.
Now that the issue has been politicized, we even have some people who are &quot;for&quot; the mandatory census saying that people who object to the questions don&#039;t really exist. I&#039;d be careful with that line of thought.
Everyone knows the census provides valuable data. No one is saying the data is not. You won&#039;t win the argument by listing the hundreds of groups and organizations who want and need this data, unless you deal with why coercion of individuals to get this data is acceptable in this case.
 
Is the following acceptable?
 
Single Mother: &quot;I feel uncomfortable with you and your questions. Please stop contacting me and leave me alone. I feel you are harassing me and I&#039;m asking you to please stop.  I know my rights.&quot;
 
StatsCan worker: &quot;We don&#039;t care how you feel, you must answer our questions about your life. I am doing nothing wrong, this is my job. You are the one breaking the law and we can fine you or put you in jail for your behaviour. We will keep contacting you. We will keep coming by your home. We have your name and we have taken a description of you. We want much more information than you have provided and you are being uncooperative. There is nothing you can do about this. You are wrong and you do not have any rights in this situation.&quot;  (Truth for the statscan worker who has a quota to reach, and is dealing with uncooperative, unhelpful, anti-government people who are purposely not answering these mandatory census questions properly.)

The standard in the western world for data collection from individuals is informed consent, (with the one and only exception of the mandatory census). Maybe it&#039;s time to look at this issue and have a real debate about the issues. 

This really long list of the people and groups who use and need this data and support the mandatory census is also a list of people who are for coercion and don&#039;t believe in informed consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Canada there is a polarization on the subject of the mandatory census. People &#8220;for &#8221; the census speak of the need for the data and it&#8217;s value in formulating smart government policy. People &#8220;against&#8221; the decision talk of their rights and coercion, and does a group have the right to demand an individual answer questions about their life against their will, under threat of fine and jail.<br />
So what&#8217;s more important, the group/state/country/collective or the rights of the individual? Hasn&#8217;t this question been played out countless times over the centuries around the world? How was this question settled? I guess it depends which country you live in. Some countries certainly protect the rights of the individual over the right of the group a lot better than others.<br />
If you study sociology or anthropology or philosophy, it is easy to identify these concepts in other populations/countries/ historical periods, but every population and individual is blind to these concepts in their own group. What do you do when the truth of your group conflicts with the truth of an individual?<br />
&#8220;StatsCan does great work for Canada.&#8221;  (Truth for our group/Country/population.)<br />
&#8220;I&#8217;ll ask the economists, politicians, and government agencies to keep their unwanted, uncomfortable questions off of me.&#8221;  (Truth for the single mother who feels uncomfortable with the questions the census informs her she must answer, and refuses to answer)</p>
<p>Hence this debate, because the existence of people who don&#8217;t answer the census questions, or answer them incorrectly, or write &#8220;object to question&#8221; for the reply poses an inconvenient truth for the group (&#8220;us Canadians&#8221;).<br />
In fact, if you look at census data from all countries, including Canada, there are a significant number of respondents who mark some answers as &#8220;object to question&#8221;. Many others answer some questions in obviously incorrect ways which are understood but are not counted (eg. marking Jedi as their religion).  It&#8217;s not easily known how many people purposely answer incorrectly and have these incorrect answers erroneously counted as accurate by Statistics Canada. Statistical agencies around the world don&#8217;t like to talk about this problem, because it skews the data and puts the validity of all their work at risk.<br />
Now that the issue has been politicized, we even have some people who are &#8220;for&#8221; the mandatory census saying that people who object to the questions don&#8217;t really exist. I&#8217;d be careful with that line of thought.<br />
Everyone knows the census provides valuable data. No one is saying the data is not. You won&#8217;t win the argument by listing the hundreds of groups and organizations who want and need this data, unless you deal with why coercion of individuals to get this data is acceptable in this case.</p>
<p>Is the following acceptable?</p>
<p>Single Mother: &#8220;I feel uncomfortable with you and your questions. Please stop contacting me and leave me alone. I feel you are harassing me and I&#8217;m asking you to please stop.  I know my rights.&#8221;</p>
<p>StatsCan worker: &#8220;We don&#8217;t care how you feel, you must answer our questions about your life. I am doing nothing wrong, this is my job. You are the one breaking the law and we can fine you or put you in jail for your behaviour. We will keep contacting you. We will keep coming by your home. We have your name and we have taken a description of you. We want much more information than you have provided and you are being uncooperative. There is nothing you can do about this. You are wrong and you do not have any rights in this situation.&#8221;  (Truth for the statscan worker who has a quota to reach, and is dealing with uncooperative, unhelpful, anti-government people who are purposely not answering these mandatory census questions properly.)</p>
<p>The standard in the western world for data collection from individuals is informed consent, (with the one and only exception of the mandatory census). Maybe it&#8217;s time to look at this issue and have a real debate about the issues. </p>
<p>This really long list of the people and groups who use and need this data and support the mandatory census is also a list of people who are for coercion and don&#8217;t believe in informed consent.</p>
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		<title>By: datalibre.ca &#183; The long list of Census supporter&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-5984</link>
		<dc:creator>datalibre.ca &#183; The long list of Census supporter&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 14:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-5984</guid>
		<description>[...] Census Watch [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Census Watch [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mid-week update &#171; CAPDU</title>
		<link>http://datalibre.ca/census-watch/comment-page-1/#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>Mid-week update &#171; CAPDU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://datalibre.ca/#comment-5680</guid>
		<description>[...] Census Watch List of Supporters &#8211; close to 300 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Census Watch List of Supporters &#8211; close to 300 [...]</p>
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